Trading CJ should be #1 on Blazers agenda...

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Gronk Brady

Gronk Brady

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Seriously, how much more does Neil need to see... 2 undersized ballhog combo gaurds playing ISO ball, DEAD LAST IN NBA IN ASSISTS.. too small to get shots off in playoffs... this is what you want as the centerpiece of your team... making 50% of salary cap... taking 50% of shots... come on Neil! Dame and CJ will be 28 and 27 years old... they are what they are. Meanwhile other teams with star players in their early 20’s will only get better. This team will go nowhere with Dame/CJ combo... no matter who you put around them, the will not touch ball enough on offense consistently to matter
 
Gronk Brady said:
Seriously, how much more does Neil need to see... 2 undersized ballhog combo gaurds playing ISO ball, DEAD LAST IN NBA IN ASSISTS.. too small to get shots off in playoffs... this is what you want as the centerpiece of your team... making 50% of salary cap... taking 50% of shots... come on Neil! Dame and CJ will be 28 and 27 years old... they are what they are. Meanwhile other teams with star players in their early 20’s will only get better. This team will go nowhere with Dame/CJ combo... no matter who you put around them, the will not touch ball enough on offense consistently to matter
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If we get a new coach that values ball movement and has the team passing like Golden State, couldn't this backcourt, in theory, work?

If C.J. refuses to change his style accordingly, then we should trade him. But I'm not sure he wouldn't buy into it.
 
BonesJones said:
If we get a new coach that values ball movement and has the team passing like Golden State, couldn't this backcourt, in theory, work?

If C.J. refuses to change his style accordingly, then we should trade him. But I'm not sure he wouldn't buy into it.
Click to expand...
I have seen enough of CJ’s play over the years to know court awareness and passing are not in his DNA... don’t want to wast another year... we need to trade CJ now
 
Gronk Brady said:
I have seen enough of CJ’s play over the years to know court awareness and passing are not in his DNA... don’t want to wast another year... we need to trade CJ now
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I'm not entirely sure. I believe he's not held accountable enough, and while C.J. is an iso-player and a scorer now, I believe that right coach might be able to mold him into a more team-oriented player.

Thats why I'd trade him for the perfect deal now, but if not, I at least want a new coach to try to mold him into something better.
 
BonesJones said:
Like who?
Click to expand...

Herein lies the problem. I too believe CJ should be traded because we have nobody that can guard a guard and CJs arrogance is getting to me. I’m not sure that he doesn’t think he has already arrived.

I don’t know who would come back. Holiday? No. It would most likely need to be a young prospect who is on the cusp of proving himself. Probably most reasonable to take a 1-3 year probably prospect and a pick or something hung else of value. Who I can’t say. Anyone really good won’t be available.
 
BonesJones said:
If we get a new coach that values ball movement and has the team passing like Golden State, couldn't this backcourt, in theory, work?

If C.J. refuses to change his style accordingly, then we should trade him. But I'm not sure he wouldn't buy into it.
Click to expand...


Passing like Golden State is worthless if you don't have the shooters to make shots. We had plenty of open shots in the series. We didn't hit many of them.
 
CupWizier said:
Passing like Golden State is worthless if you don't have the shooters to make shots. We had plenty of open shots in the series. We didn't hit many of them.
Click to expand...

Yep teams like GS and Houston have 4 shooters on the floor at the same time. Our solution is to down grade our already poor shooting for a better defender? Doesn't it make more sense to keep a good shooter and just add or develop a defender? Take someone like Baldwin.....he was easy to find. He is cheap and has defensive potential.... with the right coaching. Theoretically someone 'like him" could play with Dame or CJ. So you always have one of them on the floor.

Again for those who think we can get someone better for CJ, sure trade him. But until we add MORE quality scorers we will not get better.
 
Do Stotts / Neil actually believe that a better system would make this team better? Having AD drop 45 and Jrue another 40 on our team is just ridiculous.
 
Neil and Terry are set on keeping both Lillard and CJ together....Terry is in denile and thinks his system is good and will work/is working amd Neil is being an enabler so he doesn't have to admit his mistakes.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
Yep teams like GS and Houston have 4 shooters on the floor at the same time. Our solution is to down grade our already poor shooting for a better defender? Doesn't it make more sense to keep a good shooter and just add or develop a defender? Take someone like Baldwin.....he was easy to find. He is cheap and has defensive potential.... with the right coaching. Theoretically someone 'like him" could play with Dame or CJ. So you always have one of them on the floor.

Again for those who think we can get someone better for CJ, sure trade him. But until we add MORE quality scorers we will not get better.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I know it's different but I remember how badly people wanted to trade Sheed, that we would never win with him. Well two trades later, he's in Detroit and he wins a championship THAT YEAR. Sheed wasn't the problem. It was the guys around him. We needed guys like Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups. Same thing here. I don't think Dame/CJ is the problem. We need Aminu to average the 18/10 he gave us during playoffs or we need someone else who can and then put Aminu on bench. Then, at small forward, Harkless has to take a step forward or lose his starting spot. Turner must work on his shot and post game and we must figure out ways to get the most out of him. Finally, we have to give Meyers a legit shot at 15-20 minutes per game. We're paying a guy who is working hard at his game. Let's see what he's got. Let Pat go and see if third year Jake is ready to step up like third year Crabbe did. Of course, now we're running out of minutes for Ed Davis, Collins, and Biggie but injuries happen and they'll get their moments.
 
KingSpeed said:
Exactly. I know it's different but I remember how badly people wanted to trade Sheed, that we would never win with him. Well two trades later, he's in Detroit and he wins a championship THAT YEAR. Sheed wasn't the problem. It was the guys around him. We needed guys like Ben Wallace and Chauncey Billups. Same thing here. I don't think Dame/CJ is the problem. We need Aminu to average the 18/10 he gave us during playoffs or we need someone else who can and then put Aminu on bench. Then, at small forward, Harkless has to take a step forward or lose his starting spot. Turner must work on his shot and post game and we must figure out ways to get the most out of him. Finally, we have to give Meyers a legit shot at 15-20 minutes per game. We're paying a guy who is working hard at his game. Let's see what he's got. Let Pat go and see if third year Jake is ready to step up like third year Crabbe did. Of course, now we're running out of minutes for Ed Davis, Collins, and Biggie but injuries happen and they'll get their moments.
Click to expand...

No let pat and jake go and get someone with the tpe or mle
 
Finding a 2 guard who can score 15 to 20 points a game is not that difficult. CJ is replaceable. Not completely, but mostly. And he's a valuable trade asset. Give Pat for example 35 minutes a and he'll score 16 points.
 
joeBlazers said:
Do Stotts / Neil actually believe that a better system would make this team better? Having AD drop 45 and Jrue another 40 on our team is just ridiculous.
Click to expand...

Yes the scheme was an issue. And for those who blame our guards, neither Dame or CJ were matched up with Jrue in the last game. (nor AD)
 
Am I right that some people want to out Golden State Golden State with a team that doesn't defend or shoot that great?

If so, good luck with that
 
Stevenson said:
Finding a 2 guard who can score 15 to 20 points a game is not that difficult. CJ is replaceable. Not completely, but mostly. And he's a valuable trade asset. Give Pat for example 35 minutes a and he'll score 16 points.
Click to expand...

The problem is 16 points is not enough with this roster. Especially on nights when Dame has a bad shooting night. Plus I doubt Pat could..... every night.
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Am I right that some people want to out Golden State Golden State with a team that doesn't defend or shoot that great?

If so, good luck with that
Click to expand...
Not out Golden State them, move the ball and attack in transition like they do though. They get great shots, and their style of play is hard to shut down and gameplan againsg, and we should aim to do the same.1
 
BonesJones said:
Not out Golden State them, move the ball and attack in transition like they do though. They get great shots, and their style of play is hard to shut down and gameplan againsg, and we should aim to do the same.1
Click to expand...

I agree and that will take a deep roster.
 
BonesJones said:
Not out Golden State them, move the ball and attack in transition like they do though. They get great shots, and their style of play is hard to shut down and gameplan againsg, and we should aim to do the same.1
Click to expand...
Of course move the ball. People here (not you) keep saying we got open shots and couldn't make them.....this team isn't going to just make more threes than people consistently. I'd rather get layups and defend. Settle for threes. Not actively seek them
 
Gronk Brady said:
I have seen enough of CJ’s play over the years to know court awareness and passing are not in his DNA... don’t want to wast another year... we need to trade CJ now
Click to expand...

How many years have you been following the Blazers? In 2015-16, C.J.'s first year as a starter, he averaged 4.3 APG, that was 4th in the entire league among shooting guards. This isn't a DNA issue, it's a system issue. Our entire team sucks at getting assists. The system sucks. We don't get nearly enough ball movement or player movement. I'd like to see how Dame and C.J. would do in a system that generates a lot more ball and player movement before I blame one player for the whole team being dead last in assists.

BNM
 
Stevenson said:
Finding a 2 guard who can score 15 to 20 points a game is not that difficult. CJ is replaceable. Not completely, but mostly. And he's a valuable trade asset. Give Pat for example 35 minutes a and he'll score 16 points.
Click to expand...

He averaged 10.7 per 36 minutes playing against other teams second units. You think he's suddenly going to be dropping 16 ppg in 35 minutes against starters?

BNM
 
bodyman5000 and 1 said:
Of course move the ball. People here (not you) keep saying we got open shots and couldn't make them.....this team isn't going to just make more threes than people consistently. I'd rather get layups and defend. Settle for threes. Not actively seek them
Click to expand...
Last in fast break points
Last in assists
Most dribbles per touch

That is our issue. Fixing those and getting more ball movement and cuts to the rim will result in more layups and more open 3s. That's what I mean by playing like GS. Running, mov9ng the ball, and cutting to the rim with sets that facilitate spacing, ball movement, productive screens, and face cuts.
 
How many players in the history of the NBA have scored 50 points in 3 quarters? I prefer to keep those type of scorers. At the very least I don't rush to get rid of them
 
Gronk Brady said:
too small to get shots off in playoffs...
Click to expand...

You lost me here...

C.J. just averaged 25.3 ppg in the playoffs, compared to 21.4 ppg during the regular season. He shot .423 3FG%, .519 FG% and .610 TS% during the playoffs, compared .397 3FG%, .443 FG% and .536 TS% during the regular season. Please explain how that equates to being too short to get his shot off during the playoffs.

There are other reasons to criticize C.J.'s play, but making up shit that simply isn't true makes it feel like you're on a witch hunt and not thinking rationally.

BNM
 
BonesJones said:
Last in fast break points
Last in assists
Most dribbles per touch

That is our issue. Fixing those and getting more ball movement and cuts to the rim will result in more layups and more open 3s. That's what I mean by playing like GS. Running, mov9ng the ball, and cutting to the rim with sets that facilitate spacing, ball movement, productive screens, and face cuts.
Click to expand...

When Klay Thompson scored 60 points in 29 minutes he only took 11 dribbles the entire game. Sure, that's an extreme case, but compare that to our offense that has at least one player pounding the air out of the ball on every offensive possession. Our system has become so ISO heavy, it's rare for Dame or C.J. to score without taking > 11 dribbles per possession.

BNM
 
Actually, getting better should be #1 on the Blazers agenda - always, by any means available. You don't just trade your second best player on a whim because your team had a crappy playoff series, especially when that player stepped up his performance compared to his regular season averages/percentages.

Does that mean C.J. is untouchable? No, no one ever should be. It just means you don't force a bad trade just to make a trade. Sure, I would have traded C.J. for Jimmy Butler or Paul George, but players of that caliber are rarely available. What I wouldn't do is trade C.J. for some average 3 and D guy just so you can say we are no longer undersized in the backcourt.

The Dame and C.J. can't coexist contingent used to base their entire argument on poor team defense caused by our undersized backcourt. Well, that got blown out of the water this year when POR had a top 10 defense. So now, the new mantra is Dame and C.J. can't coexist because they play too much ISO ball. That's not a Dame and C.J. problem. That's a system problem. I want to see them in a new system with lots of ball and player movement before I make trading either of them #1 on my agenda.

BNM
 
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