Politics "Sanctuary State" law

Just got a robo-call with a recording from Lars Larson urging me to help with the petition to get a measure on the ballot to repeal a law that makes Oregon a sanctuary state. And I have to admit, despite being a conservative myself, I'm gonna need some help from the conservatives in this forum on understanding this one.

Now, I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, and I am in favor of enforcing laws that are on the books. But why should state and local law enforcement be required--or even authorized--to help enforce federal law? The state police don't engage the FBI to police the freeways. The county sheriffs don't tap the DEA to bust up local meth houses. Why should local resources be devoted at all to enforcing federal immigration laws? What is wrong with a state law that ensures that state and local resources are devoted to addressing state and local crime?

Can someone clear up what I'm missing here?

PtldPlatypus said:

Just got a robo-call with a recording from Lars Larson urging me to help with the petition to get a measure on the ballot to repeal a law that makes Oregon a sanctuary state. And I have to admit, despite being a conservative myself, I'm gonna need some help from the conservatives in this forum on understanding this one.

Now, I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, and I am in favor of enforcing laws that are on the books. But why should state and local law enforcement be required--or even authorized--to help enforce federal law? The state police don't engage the FBI to police the freeways. The county sheriffs don't tap the DEA to bust up local meth houses. Why should local resources be devoted at all to enforcing federal immigration laws? What is wrong with a state law that ensures that state and local resources are devoted to addressing state and local crime?

Can someone clear up what I'm missing here?

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For those wanting more information about the topic.

And on BallotPedia.

PtldPlatypus said:

Just got a robo-call with a recording from Lars Larson urging me to help with the petition to get a measure on the ballot to repeal a law that makes Oregon a sanctuary state. And I have to admit, despite being a conservative myself, I'm gonna need some help from the conservatives in this forum on understanding this one.

Now, I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, and I am in favor of enforcing laws that are on the books. But why should state and local law enforcement be required--or even authorized--to help enforce federal law? The state police don't engage the FBI to police the freeways. The county sheriffs don't tap the DEA to bust up local meth houses. Why should local resources be devoted at all to enforcing federal immigration laws? What is wrong with a state law that ensures that state and local resources are devoted to addressing state and local crime?

Can someone clear up what I'm missing here?

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I get you. What you have is the ability to reason. The problem is that this state operates on the "feel good" premise. Local law enforcement are not allowed to even inquire about someones legal status. If someone who is known to be here illegally is incarcerated and is to be released, the state directs that the courts and law enforcement do not co operate with ICE to the point of ignoring ICE holds, so pick up can occur.

Clearly not a matter of "doing the other entity's job", rather a professional, hand in hand attitude, that no longer is allowed to exist.

If the issue was truly a concern of monies poorly spent supporting outside entities, consider this. BOLI, DMV, all the social services including state food stamp program, as well as child services and public education system are not allowed to inquire as to someones legal status and do in fact encourage those without legal status to take advantage of services. Sir, to me, that is monies poorly spent that should be accounted for.

DaLincolnJones said:

If the issue was truly a concern of monies poorly spent supporting outside entities, consider this. BOLI, DMV, all the social services including state food stamp program, as well as child services and public education system are not allowed to inquire as to someones legal status and do in fact encourage those without legal status to take advantage of services. Sir, to me, that is monies poorly spent that should be accounted for.

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That's BS. You can not get a Drivers License or any welfare in this state if you are an illegal. They do ask and require proof.

PtldPlatypus said:

Just got a robo-call with a recording from Lars Larson urging me to help with the petition to get a measure on the ballot to repeal a law that makes Oregon a sanctuary state. And I have to admit, despite being a conservative myself, I'm gonna need some help from the conservatives in this forum on understanding this one.

Now, I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, and I am in favor of enforcing laws that are on the books. But why should state and local law enforcement be required--or even authorized--to help enforce federal law? The state police don't engage the FBI to police the freeways. The county sheriffs don't tap the DEA to bust up local meth houses. Why should local resources be devoted at all to enforcing federal immigration laws? What is wrong with a state law that ensures that state and local resources are devoted to addressing state and local crime?

Can someone clear up what I'm missing here?

Click to expand...

I'm not an Oregon resident, therefore not qualified to answer your question.
However I would like to expand on some of your comments.

There are times when the feds do get very involved with local crimes, such as bank robberies and kidnappings. And there are times the local sherrifs/police use federal resouces, such as fingerprint id, dna, and gun registration.

I'm sure glad in my travels throughout other countries that my legal status wasn't constantly checked because of my appearance....if I do something wrong, sure...

oldfisherman said:

I'm not an Oregon resident, therefore not qualified to answer your question.
However i would like to expand on some of your comments.

There are times when the feds do get very involved with local crimes, such as bank robberies and kidnappings. And there are times the local sherrifs use federal resouces, such as fingerprint id, dna, and gun registration.

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I believe the DEA operates on any interstate or international drug traffic cases...if an Oregon meth cooker was shipping meth to Las Vegas...hello DEA

riverman said:

I believe the DEA operates on any interstate or international drug traffic cases...if an Oregon meth cooker was shipping meth to Las Vegas...hello DEA

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Agree, the ATF is also more involed locally then most people realize.

I'm of the general opinion that the more cooperation there is between the varies agencys at all levels, the greater the odds of correcting problems and violations. The system is not perfect, but works better than zero cooperation.

DaLincolnJones said:

If the issue was truly a concern of monies poorly spent supporting outside entities, consider this. BOLI, DMV, all the social services including state food stamp program, as well as child services and public education system are not allowed to inquire as to someones legal status and do in fact encourage those without legal status to take advantage of services. Sir, to me, that is monies poorly spent that should be accounted for.

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Stop spreading ignorance. This isn't true at all. What it is, is a right wing LIE. Stop parroting it. It makes you at best misinformed...

PtldPlatypus said:

Just got a robo-call with a recording from Lars Larson urging me to help with the petition to get a measure on the ballot to repeal a law that makes Oregon a sanctuary state. And I have to admit, despite being a conservative myself, I'm gonna need some help from the conservatives in this forum on understanding this one.

Now, I'm not in favor of illegal immigration, and I am in favor of enforcing laws that are on the books. But why should state and local law enforcement be required--or even authorized--to help enforce federal law? The state police don't engage the FBI to police the freeways. The county sheriffs don't tap the DEA to bust up local meth houses. Why should local resources be devoted at all to enforcing federal immigration laws? What is wrong with a state law that ensures that state and local resources are devoted to addressing state and local crime?

Can someone clear up what I'm missing here?

Click to expand...

I'm missing a ton of info. Why they passed the law they are trying to repeal in the first place is the most obvious question.

At first glance the law they want to repeal seems unnecessary. Who was forcing anyone to arrest illegals prior? Was it to stop someone like Joe Arpaio?

If some Oregon small town Sheriff wanted to let his deputies arrest illegals when they came across them it would be illegal in Oregon wouldn't it? Even if ICE promised to pay?

The term Sanctuary City could mean many things I suppose. The general idea of it makes me angry but we need to know more. I sure don't want cops ignoring rapists and killers and speeders and doing ICE's job instead but I don't think that ever happened before the law.

SlyPokerDog said:

That's BS. You can not get a Drivers License or any welfare in this state if you are an illegal. They do ask and require proof.

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Not going to get in the weeds with you on this Dog.

They are given a provisional license, something that you and I are not allowed.

As to the food stamps and other social services, I have seen this occur with my own eyes. I does in fact happen in defiance of the law that states otherwise.

riverman said:

I'm sure glad in my travels throughout other countries that my legal status wasn't constantly checked because of my appearance....if I do something wrong, sure...

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Did those countries have 12 million illegal immigrants from America living there?

dviss1 said:

Stop spreading ignorance. This isn't true at all. What it is, is a right wing LIE. Stop parroting it. It makes you at best misinformed...

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Here is the law https://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/181A.820

(1) No law enforcement agency of the State of Oregon or of any political subdivision of the state shall use agency moneys, equipment or personnel for the purpose of detecting or apprehending persons whose only violation of law is that they are persons of foreign citizenship present in the United States in violation of federal immigration laws.

(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a law enforcement agency may exchange information with the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services and the United States Bureau of Customs and Border Protection in order to:

(a) Verify the immigration status of a person if the person is arrested for any criminal offense; or

(b) Request criminal investigation information with reference to persons named in records of the United States Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the United States Bureau of Citizenship and Immigration Services or the United States Bureau of Customs and Border Protection.

(3) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, a law enforcement agency may arrest any person who:

(a) Is charged by the United States with a criminal violation of federal immigration laws under Title II of the Immigration and Nationality Act or 18 U.S.C. 1015, 1422 to 1429 or 1505; and

(b) Is subject to arrest for the crime pursuant to a warrant of arrest issued by a federal magistrate.

(4) For purposes of subsection (1) of this section, the Bureau of Labor and Industries is not a law enforcement agency.

(5) As used in this section, “warrant of arrest” has the meaning given that term in ORS 131.005 (General definitions). [Formerly 181.850]

This is where is started 30 years ago. Obviously it has been expanded in practice as well as state executive order.

Illegal immigrents abuse our system many ways. They can go to most hospital emergency rooms for treatment, then walk out and never pay their bill. They are driving up the cost of health care.

dviss1 said:

Stop spreading ignorance. This isn't true at all. What it is, is a right wing LIE. Stop parroting it. It makes you at best misinformed...

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Though Oregon law already forbids state and local law enforcement agencies from using public resources to find or arrest those whose only crime is being in the country without proper documentation, Brown's order goes a step further in solidifying the state's sanctuary status by expanding the law to all agencies.

The governor's order also makes it illegal for state agencies to discriminate based on immigration status, and forbids state agencies from using public resources to help create a religious registry.

dviss1 said:

Stop spreading ignorance. This isn't true at all. What it is, is a right wing LIE. Stop parroting it. It makes you at best misinformed...

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Big D, I love you man, but I do have more than a little knowledge on the subject.

riverman said:

I'm sure glad in my travels throughout other countries that my legal status wasn't constantly checked because of my appearance....if I do something wrong, sure...

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Were you trying to live in any of those countries illegally?

I do have a friend that was tossed out of Germany because he was living there illegally. I'm not sure why illegal immigration in America needs to be a racial issue. The fact is that I cannot move to Norway or Germany unless I have a valid reason. I can't just up and move to one of those countries, despite the fact that my grandpa is 100% Norwegian. I would still have to apply and show that I have a job waiting for me.

If I just flew there and didn't leave, how long do you think I would last before they kicked me out?

SlyPokerDog said:

That's BS. You can not get a Drivers License or any welfare in this state if you are an illegal. They do ask and require proof.

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About 10 years ago I was invited to a banquet in Salem. Somehow I was seated at a table of state employees.

Their entire conversation the entire evening centered around how much of their budgets the illegals were using. They were all mad at the illegals abusing their funds.

I do not remember the specifics or which agencies they worked in. Just that they were very upset about the abuse.

Natebishop3 said:

Were you trying to live in any of those countries illegally?

I do have a friend that was tossed out of Germany because he was living there illegally. I'm not sure why illegal immigration in America needs to be a racial issue. The fact is that I cannot move to Norway or Germany unless I have a valid reason. I can't just up and move to one of those countries, despite the fact that my grandpa is 100% Norwegian. I would still have to apply and show that I have a job waiting for me.

If I just flew there and didn't leave, how long do you think I would last before they kicked me out?

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Your friend needed to steal someone's identity like illegals do here.

I used to talk to the illegal immigrant I lived next to in 2006 or so all the time.

He told he how his wife got papers to get benefits. He said you could literally buy them at the indoor swap meets in town.

He worked full time in construction and she got welfare. AWESOME SYSTEM!!!

DaLincolnJones said:

Big D, I love you man, but I do have more than a little knowledge on the subject.

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I'm talking about undocumented people getting welfare. That's just bull.

oldfisherman said:

Illegal immigrents abuse our system many ways. They can go to most hospital emergency rooms for treatment, then walk out and never pay their bill. They are driving up the cost of health care.

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Give me numbers or a link. Until then, you're blowing this outta your ass.

They also pay 12 Billion a year in taxes. Where's that money going?

Stop making stuff up...

oldfisherman said:

About 10 years ago I was invited to a banquet in Salem. Somehow I was seated at a table of state employees.

Their entire conversation the entire evening centered around how much of their budgets the illegals were using. They were all mad at the illegals abusing their funds.

I do not remember the specifics or which agencies they worked in. Just that they were very upset about the abuse.

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Ever go apply?

dviss1 said:

I'm talking about undocumented people getting welfare. That's just bull.

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You do know they use fake IDs to get jobs don't you? There was a case going to the Supreme Court about it. Not sure what the outcome was but the point was did the illegal immigrant have to KNOW the fake ID was stolen from someone else to deserve the punishment given. I'll google it and be back if I find it.

DaLincolnJones said:

Not going to get in the weeds with you on this Dog.

They are given a provisional license, something that you and I are not allowed.

As to the food stamps and other social services, I have seen this occur with my own eyes. I does in fact happen in defiance of the law that states otherwise.

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No. That is completely wrong.

Found it. Unanimous decision. Couldn't remember much about it and now I know why. Old as shit.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flores-Figueroa_v._United_States

bodyman5000 and 1 said:

You do know they use fake IDs to get jobs don't you? There was a case going to the Supreme Court about it. Not sure what the outcome was but the point was did the illegal immigrant have to KNOW the fake ID was stolen from someone else to deserve the punishment given. I'll google it and be back if I find it.

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You say this like it's 100% of them. The ones your president hired at Mar a Lago didn't have fake ID's.

The ones John McCain and Mitt Romney hired didn't have fake ID's.

This probably happens as much as voter fraud.

dviss1 said:

Give me numbers or a link. Until then, you're blowing this outta your ass.

They also pay 12 Billion a year in taxes. Where's that money going?

Stop making stuff up...

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I’ve heard these claims many times, always without any supporting data. I just did a quick google search and found a piece in Forbes that says, “Current federal policy is to prohibit federal tax funding of health care to unauthorized immigrants through either Medicaid or Obamacare. Nevertheless, rough estimates suggest that the nation’s 3.9 million uninsured immigrants who are unauthorized likely receive about $4.6 billion in health services paid for by federal taxes, $2.8 billion in health services financed by state and local taxpayers, another $3.0 bankrolled through “cost-shifting” i.e., higher payments by insured patients to cover hospital uncompensated care losses, and roughly $1.5 billion in physician charity care. In addition to these amounts, unauthorizedimmigrants likely benefit from at least $0.9 billion in implicit federal subsidies due to the tax exemption for nonprofit hospitals and another $5.7 billion in tax expenditures from the employer tax exclusion.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/amp/

Take that for what you will.

SlyPokerDog said:

No. That is completely wrong.

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Do you think people that will break our laws to come here and steal someone's identity to get a job draw the line at collecting welfare illegally? I doubt it is widespread just from observing Winco on welfare weekends but still.

e_blazer said:

I’ve heard these claims many times, always without any supporting data. I just did a quick google search and found a piece in Forbes that says, “Current federal policy is to prohibit federal tax funding of health care to unauthorized immigrants through either Medicaid or Obamacare. Nevertheless, rough estimates suggest that the nation’s 3.9 million uninsured immigrants who are unauthorized likely receive about $4.6 billion in health services paid for by federal taxes, $2.8 billion in health services financed by state and local taxpayers, another $3.0 bankrolled through “cost-shifting” i.e., higher payments by insured patients to cover hospital uncompensated care losses, and roughly $1.5 billion in physician charity care. In addition to these amounts, unauthorizedimmigrants likely benefit from at least $0.9 billion in implicit federal subsidies due to the tax exemption for nonprofit hospitals and another $5.7 billion in tax expenditures from the employer tax exclusion.”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fo...-health-care-for-undocumented-immigrants/amp/

Take that for what you will.

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They pay 12 Billion a year in taxes.

DaLincolnJones said:

Not going to get in the weeds with you on this Dog.

They are given a provisional license, something that you and I are not allowed.

As to the food stamps and other social services, I have seen this occur with my own eyes. I does in fact happen in defiance of the law that states otherwise.

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Oregon Ballot Measure 88 was a ballot measure in the U.S. state of Oregon in the 2014 midterm elections to determine whether or not to refer a "law creating a four-year driver's card, shorter than the usual eight years for a driver's license, for those who meet all other qualifications other than proof of legal presence in the United States".[1] The measure was rejected.

The background for the referendum was a law SB 833 which would have allowed undocumented immigrants to get a driver's card which was passed by the Oregon Legislative Assembly and signed by Governor John Kitzhaber in 2013. An ad-hoc group, Protect Oregon Driver Licenses, subsequently collected more than the 58,142 signatures which was required to demand a citizens veto referendum and the law was put on the ballot as Measure 88 in the 2014 general election.[2][3]

The measure was supported by unions, business organizations and groups concerned with immigrant rights. In the election it was rejected by 66% of the voters while 34% supported it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Ballot_Measure_88_(2014)